Latina State of Mind
Navigating Heartbreak and Betrayal: Unveiling Men's Emotional Struggles
When heartbreak hits, it reshapes our world in ways we can hardly anticipate. Our special guest Jacob joins us in a raw and revealing conversation about navigating the emotional aftermath of breakups, exposing the tender underbelly of the male psyche. Shattering the silence surrounding men's heartache, we uncover the anxieties and the pressing need for a nurturing support system and self-discovery.
Betrayal in love isn't just a personal crisis; it's a seismic event that can ripple through families, challenging our very notions of trust. This episode peels back the layers of pain that come with infidelity, exploring not just the struggle of those directly involved but also the collateral damage it inflicts on loved ones. In shedding light on the long road to healing, we celebrate the resilience found in setting boundaries, embracing self-worth, and learning to recognize the red flags that signal a need for change.
We round off our discussion by addressing the pervasive undercurrent of fear that many women face daily. Through personal stories, we illustrate the lengths to which women go to feel safe, from carrying protective devices to the complex dynamics of interacting with male professionals. Our heart-to-heart doesn't shy away from the tough realities of trust within relationships and society, inviting listeners to reflect on their own experiences with vulnerability and strength.
When heartbreak hits, it reshapes our world in ways we can hardly anticipate. Our special guest Jacob joins us in a raw and revealing conversation about navigating the emotional aftermath of breakups, exposing the tender underbelly of the male psyche. Shattering the silence surrounding men's heartache, we uncover the anxieties and the pressing need for a nurturing support system and self-discovery.
Betrayal in love isn't just a personal crisis; it's a seismic event that can ripple through families, challenging our very notions of trust. This episode peels back the layers of pain that come with infidelity, exploring not just the struggle of those directly involved but also the collateral damage it inflicts on loved ones. In shedding light on the long road to healing, we celebrate the resilience found in setting boundaries, embracing self-worth, and learning to recognize the red flags that signal a need for change.
We round off our discussion by addressing the pervasive undercurrent of fear that many women face daily. Through personal stories, we illustrate the lengths to which women go to feel safe, from carrying protective devices to the complex dynamics of interacting with male professionals. Our heart-to-heart doesn't shy away from the tough realities of trust within relationships and society, inviting listeners to reflect on their own experiences with vulnerability and strength.
this is latina state of mind, a podcast created by latinas for all audiences, where we can share our experiences about love, life and everything in between. Welcome, welcome to another episode of Latina State of Mind, hello.
Speaker 2:Hi, como estan? This is Xenia this is. Nancy.
Speaker 1:This is Xeniana, and we have a very special guest with us.
Speaker 4:Yes, hey, how's it going? Really glad to be here.
Speaker 2:Tell us your name, please.
Speaker 4:I'm Jacob.
Speaker 1:Jacob is here to talk to us and have awesome conversation. Gonna be great.
Speaker 3:Yep. What are we going to talk about? Yep?
Speaker 2:What are we talking about? Well, we're talking about breakups, oof, and especially the male perspective, because we have covered breakups before. Right, but it was our perspective.
Speaker 1:And it was messy, was it? I listened to the breakup episode before we recorded this episode just to see kind of what our episode was like. And I was like man, I'm a messy broken up with person.
Speaker 2:I don't think you are. I thought it was very educational, like you're messy when people break up with you. Yeah, is that what you're?
Speaker 3:saying yeah, I mean yeah.
Speaker 4:I thought that episode was just as insightful as every other episode of the Tenant State of Mind which you should all go and listen to right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Thank you, Jacob.
Speaker 3:Listen to him. He knows what he's talking about. He's very smart.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was going to say he's white, but I'm not going to say that.
Speaker 1:Right here, girl, then you should really listen to him oh man, what does that mean? Let's talk about breakups.
Speaker 3:Breakups.
Speaker 1:How do you handle breakups?
Speaker 4:like, so really badly um so so I'm a really anxiously attached person. Uh, when, when I'm in a relationship with someone, I tend to get really attached really quickly and I tend to convince myself that the other person's not attracted. And so I have to like be performative, I have to go above and beyond. I have to sacrifice my own needs, my own boundaries, to make sure that they stay and they'll never leave me. So when they do, it's horrible and I knew it all along, and life is doomed and it's the end of the world. So I handle it pretty bad.
Speaker 1:I think we all handle it pretty bad yeah.
Speaker 3:Do you feel like you've repeated that pattern, though, or have you learned anything from your mistakes?
Speaker 1:Yes, Thank you for asking, Nancy.
Speaker 4:Yes. So, yeah, a lot of breakups were like that. But I recently went through a pretty significant breakup and it started off kind of that way. It was like it was the end of the world.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 4:It was a long relationship. We bought a house together. We lived together for years. I was really close with all of her family members, and when you're that close with someone and when you spend as much time together as we did and then they leave you, it changes your whole world. Your whole reality is different, because your day-to-day routine is just fundamentally not the same as it was. You don't get to sleep next to someone anymore, you don't have anyone to talk to, you don't have anyone to talk to, you don't have someone to come home to. It's devastating. And so this time I did a bit of that bad behavior that I talked about before, but I challenged myself to make new friends and do new things and surround myself with like a support network, and it's amazing how much that actually worked.
Speaker 3:Right, what were some of those bad behaviors that you would do If?
Speaker 1:you don't mind sharing, or whenever you feel comfortable sharing. Yes, share with us.
Speaker 4:So a lot of like ruminating so looking up what she's doing, seeing who she's with, wondering what she's up to.
Speaker 3:That's the worst yes, some would say stalking I used to do that too.
Speaker 4:Oh my gosh, it's so, it's so bad it's yeah, um, but also, like you know, drinking a lot, um, like not being able to sleep, uh, unless I'm inebriated somehow, staying up way too late, losing motivation for everything, um, yeah, just beating myself up, looking in the mirror and like not not liking what I see and not treating myself kindly, like with my own words, because like, oh, if she left me, you know I must be, I must be trash you know.
Speaker 1:So that kind of thing yeah, it's, very sad but thank you for sharing this because I feel like this is something that a lot of men go through, but they refuse to talk about because they won't acknowledge they're like oh no, um, this is not. I don't know why, but I like that you're you're. You're saying this because, as somebody that has been broken up with and has been hurt, it always seemed like men don't go through it like I always really do men never like. They don't have feelings like they don't go through it.
Speaker 1:They just hurt women and all. All men are trash like when, when you're, when you but it's nice to hear that there are men out there that go through it and that actually have those feelings and that actually feel vulnerable and and and and actually fall in love. So thank you for sharing that that really means a lot to me.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it was. It was nice growing up with a bunch of women. I grew up I had so many sisters and stepsisters growing up and I was close with all of them and they weren't like my guy friends. And then you learn how to or I learned how to express how I was feeling and talk about emotions and not bottle things up, which is really unhealthy. Guys, if you're listening, stop.
Speaker 2:Talk to anyone.
Speaker 4:Talk to me, dm us, send a message to the show I'll give you my number.
Speaker 2:We promise we won't judge yeah.
Speaker 1:Thank you. No, I, it's amazing, honestly Cause like you, you want to, you want to you, you want to heal, you want to like, you want to do what's best for you. But when you sit in those nasty feelings, like you said, it's so hard. I remember stalking all those people that broke up with me. I remember being like is she better than me, is she cuter? Like what did he change me for?
Speaker 1:Like you know all these things you think about and they're so stupid, like whatever they did or they didn't do, they did it because of them, not because of you.
Speaker 4:A hundred percent 100%.
Speaker 3:That's such an important point. I feel like we make it about ourselves when in reality it's well most of the time. I think it's not right it's something that that person is going through, or they're just decided to do whatever they want to with their life and not include you anymore, which sucks, but rarely has to do with something about you, I think yeah.
Speaker 1:And the fact that you said you had to look at yourself in the mirror. You have to look at you and be nice to yourself. I feel like that's that's key, because as women, we do it all the time. We're always so, so hard on ourselves. For I remember so many times it was oh, I'm too fat for this guy, I'm too this for this guy, I'm too that for that guy, he, he did this to me because I'm I'm too this for this guy, I'm too that for that guy. He did this to me because I'm not his type and he couldn't tell me. You know, and it's all these, this narrative that we, we put in our brains, that so unhealthy and thank you.
Speaker 4:We like to hurt ourselves, yes.
Speaker 1:Yes, and it's not good. It's a little masticist, I don't mind it.
Speaker 2:No, but I'm really I myself. I'm really excited for this conversation because I have two older brothers and I want to be able to talk to them more personally. Yeah, especially one of them, he just went through a breakup and I'm like I don't know what to tell him and I don't know how to like get him to like open up about it, because I know he's definitely affected by it. Yeah, but I wish I could be like hey, let's talk, let's get this out.
Speaker 4:Men are. Men are stubborn animals. They they're hard-headed and if you approach it on the nose they'll probably won't talk to you. You gotta just give them opportunities, you just gotta be available. You gotta make sure that he knows that you care about him and and then, when he's feeling vulnerable enough, he'll open up to you. And when he does that, you just got to be ready to be there and listen. But you can't force him to open up, I think.
Speaker 1:How do we, as women, show our good fellow men, the good men that we are only the good men that we are there and available for when they need to talk Like how, how did somebody show that to you?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think that's a great question. So, um, I'm really close with my sister. She looks after me, she, she basically raised me, um, from the time we were kids and when she knew that I was having a hard time after this last breakup, she bought a plane ticket and flew out to see me. And when she knew that I was having a hard time after this last breakup, she bought a plane ticket and flew out to see me and she stayed with me for a week. That's how she showed me she was just physically.
Speaker 1:That's really sweet.
Speaker 4:Yeah, she's the best Shout out.
Speaker 3:You're the best.
Speaker 4:She and and she didn't have questions, she didn't have expectations, she just was physically present and just made it a point to be there, and then, whenever I was ready to talk, I just knew I could talk to her.
Speaker 2:That's what I want to tell her brother.
Speaker 4:I'm not going to judge. You Tell him.
Speaker 2:You can talk all the shit about her that you want.
Speaker 1:I'll join on that I knew just enough.
Speaker 2:No, but he, he's a, he's a Taurus, so he's very stubborn, yeah, and it's going to take a while for him to open up, and that's okay, that's okay.
Speaker 1:I'll be here for you, brother, whenever you need to talk. Do you mind sharing a little bit of what happened? You don't have to go into details, but yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:So we were both really young when we met. We met online through a friend of a friend. They're a really complicated story and we hit it off really quickly and we started living together. After the first year of dating, I flew up here basically to be with her. I knew I was going to leave where I was from, anyway, a thousand miles away, and I didn't know where I was going to leave, where I was from, anyway, a thousand miles away, um, and I didn't know where I was going to go and I knew that that girl was here. So here's, here's where I landed and we were just best friends. Um, we, we, we played games together, we hung out together, we went out together, we, we spent every waking moment of our time together that we could and we and we never got tired of it. And, um, as we got older and moved to different places, we both got pretty depressed.
Speaker 4:The political environment of the world got pretty bleak. We're kind of regressing as far as women's rights. There's been conflict going around in the world, like it's a lot of you know that stuff's going on and, at the same time, like our lives are getting harder all the time. It's expensive, work is hard. You don't know what you want to do with a career.
Speaker 4:It may be hard to try to find a job Like all those stressors just started weighing on us and we got more depressed and we we stopped trying new things and we stopped going places and we stopped hanging out with our friends and we stopped having time of any time to ourselves and we just sat at home together and did nothing and that eventually devolved until it got to a boiling point when I found out that she was cheating on me. She was having an affair with someone for a couple of weeks online, just like we did when we first started dating, and I imagine it was exciting and nothing like the boring relationship that had been stagnant, you know, for who knows how long before. That happened and I just found out about it and that's how it ended.
Speaker 1:I'm so sorry. That's so sad. That's that's all right, it's okay, but thank you for sharing. Yeah, no problem.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, I, I'm angry, so, and I'm trying not to be, but that's because, um, I really like you, jacob, that somebody hurt you, um, and I understand that you're just being so nice and you're being so thoughtful and all those things, but I think that I cheating is sensitive for me because it's happened very, very close in my family and I know how much that hurts and I know the damage it can do to someone, to someone's self-esteem, to someone's life, someone's self-esteem, to someone's life, and so I, I, I know that you are so sweet and you're sitting here and saying you know we did this and this happened, and you're basically taking any blame from her, which, um, I appreciate, but I think that you're a piece of shit for cheating.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, we, we can say ugh, woman too.
Speaker 1:Exactly Like if you don't want to be with somebody, just end it and don't cheat.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I understand that sentiment a lot and I feel that way a lot of the time and I'll get really angry, but I try to have as much empathy as possible and you can't deny that that's easier said than done, right? Like we've been together for six years, we live in a house that we bought together. You're really just going to end it on this affair. Like you're really just going to throw it all away Exactly, and so for me, like that's why fuck around anyway and then find out. Right, I get it, I get it.
Speaker 1:For around anyway and then find out right, I get it, I get it. That's for me. That's where I'm like, yeah, and you're not wrong at all. Yeah, like I feel like my dad cheated on my mom. They'd been married for 40 something years, oh my god, um, and that wasn't the only one time, right, but the the reason their marriage ended was because he he basically fucked up and ended up in a different relationship and got caught up on that. I know what that did to my mom after 40 years of putting up with the man. That was annoying and you know that did all these things that he wasn't supposed to do. I know what that did to me as his daughter and to my brothers, you know. Yeah, so for me it's like if my dad would have come to her and said, hey, I'm done, like this is over, it would have been, it would have sucked ass.
Speaker 1:It would have, but it would have taken away so much of that pain that he caused when he went behind everybody's back.
Speaker 4:So absolutely yeah, and those wounds are there, like the insecurity, the low self-esteem, the all that that's there. I'm fortunate enough that I can go to therapy and then I can exercise and have the motivation to do that and surround myself with friends who are positive and encouraging, and that's helped a lot and I've really come a long way with with that. But yeah, I know what you mean it sucks. I just and I know I'm just- if I were, if I were pissed, it'd be justified.
Speaker 4:But I don't want to be like, yeah, I don't want to hold on to anger. If I don't have to, if I, if I'm capable of not leaning into that, just it's not worth it. I'll be angry for you yes we're all angry. Yes, that's what I'm here for. Remember I said surround myself with friends it makes it better.
Speaker 3:That's what I'm here for. Hey, remember I said surround myself with friends Makes it better.
Speaker 2:That's what I'm here for hey, now you have an angry friend over here Hell yeah, she'll do it for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I will say all the mean things you don't want to say, perfect.
Speaker 2:Let's start right now.
Speaker 1:Fuck you, bitches.
Speaker 2:Just in case you didn't hear. She said fuck you, bitches yeah.
Speaker 1:If you cheated on jacob, fuck you. So you actually just said fuck you to four people bitches, that's why I said bitches yeah do you?
Speaker 2:I don't know if it's gonna be too personal nothing's too personal. Later on let's go, yeah uh, do you regret ending things? Because I've heard a lot not a lot, but I've heard the phrase. Why end it after one bad thing, despite having all of these other good things or other good memories?
Speaker 4:than I did, because I couldn't accept it. When I found out I did something bad that I regret doing, that was unethical, and I opened up her computer and read some messages that she had sent this guy. That's how I found out about the affair. I should have marched up the stairs and just ended it, cut it off, but I didn't. I again, I red redrew my own boundaries, I sacrificed my own needs. I decided that I didn't deserve any better than that and so I said you know, like you can talk about, like, do we need to open up the relationship? Like you need to just see this through and make a decision and like things like that which was, which felt gross and small, and I didn't like that. Um, you know what I mean. I should have. I should have demanded better for myself and just moved on.
Speaker 3:But I think you have to go through those things to realize, right? Because then maybe you would have ended up with more questions, right? You would have been like well, what if I had? I would have said this, or what if we and you didn't? You said everything you could say and it's okay, yeah, yeah, you're in a better place now for that.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, and and and. The better, the healthier, and the more like emotionally secure state that I work at getting to now, the more I'm realizing like, oh it's, it's such a good thing that that relationship ended. You know, breakups happen for a reason and it's almost always a good reason because even if you didn't want to break up, they did and it takes two right. So and I'm realizing more and more like all the, all the red flags that I didn't know when I was the frog in boiling water in the relationship. Not seeing it just make me miserable. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I was looking at you because, like a one comment that he made which one, uh gosh, I can't remember now, but it was super important I looked at you and I was like because it was something about being basically less toxic.
Speaker 1:And then I looked at you and I was like, oh, you want me to be less toxic? No, never.
Speaker 4:Never, I can be.
Speaker 1:You can, I can. Yes, I will try.
Speaker 2:Not to can?
Speaker 1:yes, I will try not to um. I was gonna ask you a question about you said this has happened to you four times. Yeah, do you think um, I know I blame myself for so many things whenever I got broken up with or whenever something ended, and this last time time it happened, do you think you saw you? You were like this is why it happened, or like what do you think you discover about yourself after this breakup?
Speaker 4:Well, the most important thing, I think, is something that I've already mentioned, which is, like my tendency to sacrifice my own needs. I got to stop doing that. I got to, I got to, I got to stop doing that. I gotta, I gotta, I gotta understand and believe that I deserve more than that, and better than to than to fall into that behavior.
Speaker 1:Is it getting easier now to understand that? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:And I think I'm gonna. I'm gonna really be mindful about my next relationship and try to find someone who doesn't make me want to do that in the first place is what I realized.
Speaker 2:I think it's super important that you said um be. Oh my gosh, I keep forgetting what you say.
Speaker 3:I'm so sorry, but it's so important.
Speaker 2:It is very important and I really and I really liked what you said. Um, I thought it was super important that you said that you be mindful, especially and I want to say this to like men be like, hey, be mindful that this may or may not have been because of you.
Speaker 4:Right.
Speaker 2:And if it was, then shoot, work on it and if not, then still try to become better in some way. I think it was something that you mentioned around that, that I thought that was really important and I think a lot of men should consider you know.
Speaker 3:I think it's like recognizing the pattern that we have right and that are not beneficial or that are hurtful if it's happening. Obviously it's not your fault if somebody cheated on you. That's not what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 4:But, like you were saying, you were putting yourself maybe in a situation where you were maybe more forgiving than you should have because you were not set with your boundaries and you were allowing those situations to happen, like how much did my bad behavior that I didn't realize that I was doing about, like not having boundaries, not expressing needs, not showing up fully as a partner, how much did that lead to the destruction of the relationship, who knows? You know, we got to catch ourselves in that behavior and that falls right in line with something we talked about earlier in the podcast Men, don't bottle your shit up.
Speaker 4:Talk about it, if you need something, say so, so it's important that you do I appreciate you saying um like that.
Speaker 1:We rec that you recognize what you did wrong in the relationship like I really do appreciate that.
Speaker 1:But I think also one of the things is I don't want you to take all the blame because I see, because she cheated on me, yeah it seems like you're the I don't know you for that long, but I feel like when you have a good heart like, you tend to be like I did this wrong and you tend to take the blame for the outcome, which I think is where I don't want you to go, you know like, and where I don't want good people to go, because a lot of the times, yeah, we all make mistakes, yeah, we all do shitty things in relationships and we're not perfect, and I'm except for nancy. She is perfect.
Speaker 3:Remember that um, but I apologize to anyone who's ever lost me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly guess, obviously, but you know um cheating is cheating yeah no, what like? There comes a time where you there's there's a chance for you to stop yourself. There's a there's that place where you say I'm taking this too far, and and and one more step is cheating. And I feel like a lot of people have this. Oh, I'm just talking to someone. If I'm just I'm emotionally involved with someone, that's not cheating, that's fucking cheating, yeah like if you're, if you're having someone else meet the needs that your partner is supposed to be having.
Speaker 4:That's fucking cheating and so, yeah, we, we talked about it out loud multiple times. We, we, we had a discussion about like what are? What is disagreement? What are, what are we doing in this relationship, what are our boundaries? And we agreed time and time again to be monogamous, exclusive, completely, emotionally, physically, all that. So it's not even like. It's not even like I was making an assumption about what we were. It's that we knew what we were supposed to be and she knew very well it was cheating from the moment, like it happened.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, yeah, you're right so it's not your fault and fuck bitch I think honestly in this situation and you you can correct me if I'm wrong, but like it started when they maybe downloaded the app or down or started those that thought yeah, it was a sim.
Speaker 4:That affair started the same way our relationship started, oh yeah, I'm so sorry, that sounds really painful it was horrifying yeah yeah, so and, like I said, we lived together, right and, and the worst part, the worst thing, the uh, the thing I wish never happened. Uh, it took a couple days before before she left the house and in those couple days that she was there, she was continuing to be in the affair and to spend time with this guy in front of me fuck bitches, that is that's, that's terrible I don't even know what to say.
Speaker 4:yeah, like that was a tough pill to swallow. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Because oh man.
Speaker 3:It's so hard to even like comprehend, I think, at that point because this is someone who said they loved you Right, and they're intentionally hurting you, it's so it's so hard to have any sort of compassion and what I was saying before about like acknowledging acknowledging what we do is more for than anything else, because, yeah, so you can protect yourself in the future in other relationships but it makes no sense to me, because how can people say things like I love you and then do things like right, right.
Speaker 1:It makes no sense because I feel like, if you're, you know the kind of pain that that you're going to cause somebody. If they find out you, you know. That's why you're hiding it. If, if you didn't think this was painful, if you didn't think this was going to hurt anybody, there would be no reason for you to hide anything. So when my husband goes to lunch with one of his co-workers as a female, he tells me about it because there's nothing to hide, because he knows that there's not like that's a friendship.
Speaker 3:And you show up because you're toxic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I show up there to see if it's really just a friendship. She just wants to check out the menu, that's all.
Speaker 3:And how do you guys feel about relationships where someone cheats and the other person decides to you know, forgive them, stay in the relationship. What do we think about that?
Speaker 4:I. I think it it depends entirely on the discovery of the affair, like how it was found out and how it was approached. Because I know in my situation, if she would have come to me and said I've been having an affair, I'm sorry, I don't want to be in that anymore and I've ended it and I want to stay with you, can we, can we work on this? I would have said yes, absolutely, and it would have been no, no questions asked. But finding out the way that I did hurts so much more and you can't. One of the things that you that you lose when that happens is the ability to believe them and trust them. And so you, after you find, find out that way it's that much harder to believe like that they would want to still be with you. You know what I mean. Even if like so, if you find out like that and then they say let's stay together, then you go like do you really mean that? How could I possibly believe you?
Speaker 3:you know, so even like any other thing from then on. How could you even believe it's true, right?
Speaker 1:and especially if you're an anxious person, it's easy to make up stuff like oh there's no way she could be telling the truth you know, yeah, right, do you want to go um?
Speaker 4:this is any his daily shit. Yeah, this is my daily shit, um.
Speaker 1:So, like I said, my dad cheated on my mom, um, and I think they try to make it work a lot, but there was never this. I don't think they ever worked through it. So my experience with that was always terrible, like. It was always like why did you guys stay together? You should have just ended it, I.
Speaker 1:When I met Jerome's, one of the things he told me was that his biggest um, what did he the words he used was currency was trust, that the best way that he could show me that he cared was, um, trust that he would do what was required for me to trust him. But I needed to do what was required for him to trust me, and I thought that was really honest. And that was one of the things that I was immediately attracted to, because in every other relationship it was always like let me hide my phone, let me, I'm gonna be with my cousin at his party or I'm gonna go see my grandma, or you know. Like a lot of bullshit, um.
Speaker 1:And in this relationship it was everything was out, and so for me, I don't think I could go through somebody cheating on me and losing that trust and being like, okay, let's work on it because I don't, I don't think I could like me. It would be really hard after like having the beauty of trust and trusting that somebody is not going to do that to you because they care about you, I I couldn't like, I really honestly, would always doubt it. I I don't think I could be like yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm gonna forever trust him again like I, I just couldn't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm an overthinker myself, so I feel the same way. I would constantly be like oh, they don't love me, they don't care about me, they even if they tell me and they show it. But I don't know. If that were to happen to me, in the back of my mind I'd always be questioning it. So I'd rather not. I don't think I would continue it for that reason, because I don't want to be questioning it yeah, it's.
Speaker 3:It's difficult, especially once there are more things like a house or kids or all these other things, and I think that's what I tell myself also, that I wouldn't stay in a situation like that. But I feel like we have to have so much compassion for the people who stay for those things, because I can't imagine how difficult it is and how much work they have to kind of finally live peacefully right, because it's such it's torture almost.
Speaker 1:Yeah we're doing great. Nova had an opinion about that.
Speaker 4:He said fuck bitches he takes after his mom.
Speaker 1:I think that you're right, nancy. It's just hard, because when you do things for the kids, I understand financially that you can be stuck in a situation and that sucks. But I feel like when you do things for your kids and staying in a relationship where the parents don't trust each other, what you're teaching your kids is that it's okay to be in a relationship where there's no trust. And for me, I saw this growing up. I saw the lack of stability, all the self-esteem issues in both ends, because they both, in their own way, had, um, self-esteem issues, one because he, they did what they did, and the other one because it was done to them, you know. But at the same time it was just like I wish we could have figured out a way to just live separately and live happier, because then the fights would have not been there, that tension that built up so many times because she didn't know where he was, even if he was doing nothing you know they're like.
Speaker 4:There's always that tension, there's always that kids see that right, right and as a kid.
Speaker 1:You feel it like you know it. You know what's going on, even if you don't know that exactly what it is. You know something's up and I wish there was. There would have been a way where they could have just been like, okay, this is done, I'm not like, I'm not gonna, let's just end it. And and I do, I I I feel for those people that live in that situation, because a lot of women or men are dependent on their spouse for income or you know, and it's hard for them to like, leave us a bad situation which sucks, and I hate that.
Speaker 1:Are there people that are stuck in those?
Speaker 4:but if you're not and you can get out, I feel like it's probably best yeah, like yeah, it still makes it more complicated of a decision, though, right like of course you're a hundred percent right. It absolutely has a negative impact on kids growing up. But, like in the moment when you're deciding like, do I want to let this go? Like kids, do make it that much that much heavier of a decision, you know.
Speaker 3:Sorry Diana, I'm going to just Diana and I are sharing a mic.
Speaker 1:Moving the mic to myself because Diana is being so quiet right now.
Speaker 2:I'm just, I'm just letting you be, share what you've got inside. Yes, this is presented by Sonia, I don't mind. I don't mind sharing.
Speaker 1:I think I'm just. This is a topic that I'm. The whole cheating thing for me is because, like I said, I've lived through it in my life with my, with my family. It's just.
Speaker 1:I don't think that people that do it understand how hurtful it is and how damaging it is to others. You know hurtful it is and how damaging it is to others. You know, um, whether you're sleeping with a married man or married woman, or you're just cheating on your boyfriend, like cheating has so many things that come like, but after that, like it's not just oh, we broke up and I'm hurt, it just. There's so much more than that you.
Speaker 4:You deal with grief because it's like you lost a relationship. It's like that relationship is dead now and you have that grief, you have that loss of your day-to-day and your routine and your partner is gone. You have that sadness because you miss them. You have that insecurity because you got cheated on. It's a cascade of negative emotions and feelings that you have to go through, so many that you can't feel them at the same time, and you go through waves of just one bad thing to the next. Yeah, yeah, it's horrible.
Speaker 1:Don't, don't cheat folks don't cheat, don't be bitches I love that.
Speaker 2:I love that you're cursing a lot more.
Speaker 1:Let it out especially in this episode yeah, let it out.
Speaker 2:Um, it's so. It's just so important and this one thing that I keep thinking about, it's so important that, uh, you would end a relationship, uh, for however many years, for the moment of the fuck it moment, the, the excitement moment, which is it's gonna last. It's great, it's great for that one period of time, but it's not gonna last most relationships, most people that get into relationships where they've cheated like the.
Speaker 1:You're cheating on your spouse and don't last.
Speaker 4:That's your fucking karma yeah, I mean it should tell you a lot about the person, right?
Speaker 1:yeah, exactly right, sorry, continue I.
Speaker 2:I have a, I have a Sure. How did you, how did you find out? How did you know that this person was cheating on you? How did it happen?
Speaker 4:So so we spent all of our time together. We could finish each other's sentences, know what we're thinking like, that kind of thing Really really close, really close. And um, I got off of work early one day and didn't give her a heads up that I was coming home, um, and I just walked into the room and she was on the phone and she just hung up really quick, just like oh and then got off the phone and I didn't say anything.
Speaker 4:That's even if you're in a serious relationship. Folks who they're on the phone with is not your business at this point in the story. Okay, like, respect their privacy, but so that's not what made me suspicious. What made me suspicious was she immediately gave me a justification for why she hung up on the person so quickly and just said that it was her mom, and it was no big deal and it was a short conversation without you, even without asking, right, yeah, so she's guilty and panicking, right?
Speaker 4:oh, fuck, oh fuck right so sorry I didn't know if we were, if we were f-bombing on this one, okay okay, all right, fuck bitches, fuck bitches.
Speaker 4:So the uh little little latency on the sensor, so um so, and I knew immediately she was lying, um, because I knew I knew her really well, uh, and I know her mom really well and I know I knew she would never hang up on her mom like that ever, especially if I walked in. She was just continuing the conversation. So that's when I knew, oh shit, something's up, and I had a lot of anxiety and, uh, nothing happened for a while after that. I just felt anxious and shitty, I knew something was up and until I couldn't take it anymore. And that's when I went and looked through the messages and found it it sucks to be proven.
Speaker 1:Right thing we're not toxic. They make us toxic yes, yes, yes, yes like wait, hold on. She hung up the phone. I would not need anything else as soon as that would, immediately, as soon as that happened, I would be going through that phone it's crazy.
Speaker 2:So the the reason good for you for not being toxic, jacob the whole relationship, from the from start to finish.
Speaker 4:We agreed we were going to respect each other and respect each other's privacy and be truthful and faithful and honest, and she didn't do. There were no other affairs up until that point in the relationship we were, there was perfect fidelity, and we never felt compelled to look through each other's phones. We never had a suspicion, never a doubt, and we were never worried about that sort of thing, which is what made it all the more jarring when that didn't happen, you know nancy.
Speaker 1:Have you ever been? Have you ever gone through anybody's phone?
Speaker 3:I have yeah, but I've also, I've also cheated, oh whole new dynamic wait hold on wow, she said she was perfect
Speaker 4:how do you think she knows that she has to live through it? This is, I had no idea, okay. So now we've got questions for nancy, now we have questions. What happened?
Speaker 3:okay, okay, so I cheated once.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:When I was really young and I was very inebriated.
Speaker 1:And then I just kept saying fuck bitches. I'm sorry, nancy, I'm bitches, you're bitches too.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's no excuse. I got drunk and I made a mistake.
Speaker 2:I'm going to be a little lenient because, you were not in your right mind. I feel like not 100% lenient, right like no.
Speaker 3:I know I knew it was a mistake and literally like the morning after when I woke up, I called this person to let them know what had happened because I felt so guilty, right, they never really were able to forgive me, which I understand, but I think in my mind I kept thinking like it was a mistake, like I'm not gonna do it again. And I didn't. But yeah, I don't know. I haven't done it ever since, guys, I learned my lesson.
Speaker 1:It's so much different.
Speaker 4:It's so much different to have uh, to be drunk and to get caught up in the heat of a moment once and then immediately come clean. That's a totally different story than having a private secret affair that goes on for weeks or months, you know. That's way more intentional way more malicious that way.
Speaker 2:There was more consciousness. Maybe there wasn't a lot of consciousness.
Speaker 3:I mean it's still a mistake.
Speaker 4:Exactly. You still knew what you were doing and definitely shouldn't have done that.
Speaker 2:It's no excuse, but still there's a bit of consciousness to it that this other individual had.
Speaker 3:Tanya has something to say.
Speaker 1:No, I just have a question now. Okay, so would you? I'm just asking the same question Would you forgive somebody if they cheated like Nancy did?
Speaker 3:as opposed to the other type of cheating.
Speaker 4:Would I no like that's a question for the entire room. Uh-huh, oh yes, absolutely you would.
Speaker 1:Yeah definitely I would be more lenient too. I don't know if I would, but I would think about it you would consider it, consider, and that's a lot for her and that's a lot. So it's only for you, only because it was me what?
Speaker 4:What about you, Dinah?
Speaker 2:I would also consider it. I feel like if there was more thought to it and more length to the affair, then no, I don't think I would consider it. I don't know for sure, but I don't think I would consider it. If there was drugs, alcohol involved, I'll think about it, but it would still be tough for me.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah it would be hard for me too, would you, nancy?
Speaker 3:I think it would be hard for me, like, knowing the type of person that I am, I would feel so betrayed.
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 3:That I don't think. I think I would want to understand, but I don't think I could. I would never forget it, so it would be really hard to yeah. I think I would be mean to that person afterwards, like wanting to be I don't know vengeful and make them feel how they made me feel, and I wouldn't want that for somebody else, you know.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean that's totally fair. That makes a lot of sense. Maybe me saying yes so quickly to that is just sacrificing needs and redrawing boundaries. Maybe I should be more introspective.
Speaker 3:I don't know no, I mean whatever works you don't okay, regardless of the situation, you cheat fuck you, I gotta spend more time with saying actually that's not a bad idea.
Speaker 1:Learn a little bit of toxicity from her, just a little bit I am not toxic I know I've listened to the record I've heard the other episodes I know, I know she would never, never. But we're gonna take a break from this topic and go to anybody want to do anything else? I mean?
Speaker 4:they had that one thing you guys talked about doing. Right, what was it? It wasn't that memorable.
Speaker 1:No, it's not. How about some of that Diana's Daily shit? Let's go.
Speaker 2:Let's get it All right, fuck everyone.
Speaker 4:First and foremost.
Speaker 1:No, I'm just kidding. Say what Especially bitches first and foremost.
Speaker 2:No, I'm just kidding. Um, say what, especially bitches? Uh, no, we're gonna talk about a topic that has been very um, it's been going around in the social media sphere for a bit. We're gonna talk about man versus bear in the woods okay, I think I know everyone's answer, but like if you were stuck in the woods with a man or a bear who would you rather encounter.
Speaker 3:Bear Bear man.
Speaker 2:Get out.
Speaker 4:I have a different kind of privilege here, though. That's true, that's true.
Speaker 2:But yes, I would obviously pick bear as well. I would rather get my guts slashed out by a bear than by a man, Because unfortunately both are capable of that. But men have a frontal lobe. Well, they do have a frontal lobe.
Speaker 3:Last we checked.
Speaker 2:Last the anatomy was checked. They did.
Speaker 3:Is it fully developed?
Speaker 2:We don't know, but anyways, debatable, debatable, but anyways, a bear doesn't. I don't know if they have a frontal lobe, but they don't have the.
Speaker 2:Um, I guess I don't say it like the, they're just going on instinct, they're trying to survive, exactly yes, they're hungry, they want to protect themselves, they want to protect their cubs, they, whatever it is, they don't have the thought that they are going to hurt you because of some self-pleasure thing, emotion, and, unfortunately, a lot of men, they uh look at women and they see them as less and they see them as more vulnerable, so they have all of these inappropriate thoughts about them, um hurting them, torturing them, murdering them. Um. So, yes, I I don't understand people who are angry about this and obviously, if you're getting angry about this topic, then you have issues yourself.
Speaker 3:Um talk to a therapist about that, not us, um gosh, but um yes, so bear just the fact that when we're walking outside and we have to have, like, our keys or something in our hands to feel a little bit more safe whenever we see men walking around it's crazy.
Speaker 4:You you mentioned that I. I remember the moment I found out that that was a thing. I was a little kid, um, I was like i't know, maybe seven or eight years old, and my, my older sister was doing that. I said, like, why are you doing that? And she told me, and it blew my mind, and it still blows my mind to this day and I think the fact that so many, so many women choose bear should you shouldn't be angry about that. You well, I mean you should be angry, but for a a different reason.
Speaker 4:That should just say a lot about like where we're at as a society, right with women having to feel that way and being so normal that the assumption is sexual assault. Yeah, that's fucked up. Why, why is?
Speaker 1:that the norm right. I, as soon as I, as soon as I get in my car, I lock my car. Same like I don't even wait um, I have pepper spray in my in my keychain.
Speaker 4:I'm always looking everywhere and and you shouldn't have to right like you shouldn't have to, and when I'm in the woods, I don't feel that.
Speaker 1:When I'm hiking, I'm like enjoying my life, and if there's a bear. I'm like okay, well, bear, I have seen a bear in the woods.
Speaker 2:Guess what he did? He minded his own business he wasn't trying to ask for your phone number he wasn't trying to ask for my phone number, he wasn't groping me, he wasn't saying all these inappropriate things he was just being a bear that's funny.
Speaker 3:My girlfriend bought me pepper spray and taser and I was walking recently and a man approached me and told me that he had seen me and he had to drive back to let me know that I was beautiful oh, my god, no oh no.
Speaker 3:So I told my mom after that and I was like, well, but now I have a taser and now I have a pepper, and she's like you can't do that anymore, like you can't go out and walk over there, because even if you have that, that's not going to help you and it's kind of like sad to think about it which is probably true like it makes you feel safe you have to be like hyper vigilant of your surroundings as a woman you have to be like super aware of your surroundings right
Speaker 2:um, and it's it's very unfortunate and like. Something that I feel myself is that I feel safe around my brothers and I feel when there are other men around, but like why does that have to be the case? Why do I only have to feel, or why can? Why do I only feel safe around my brothers when there's other men around? Why don't I feel safe around all men? Why? Why does it have to be the case? Why does it have to be like around another male presence?
Speaker 1:because they suck generally it made me so sad when you said that, because I I totally feel the same way, like I feel so safe around my husband, I feel so safe around my brothers, like the men that I know, but if there are men out there like I don't feel safe around them, I don't know what they're thinking I don't know, what they're capable of like that sucks, that does suck.
Speaker 4:I don't feel safe around male doctors tell us more I don't know why. It's weird. I just like I, I just don't think they're taking me seriously. Like versus like a woman doctor.
Speaker 2:It's different every time okay, but yeah, that's kind of true actually yeah, yeah, it's not that I don't feel a male doctor, but I think a female provider is going to give me more attention or is going to listen to me more than a male provider.
Speaker 4:I feel like they just give a shit more and the male doctor's like I'm getting in, getting out. Don't waste my goddamn time. I'm busy, I'm rich, you know like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's more about the ego than the actual profession. Back in, that's what they tell you Are you good at the doctor, like IT? But they don't really tell you Turn yourself off and wait two minutes.
Speaker 2:And then turn yourself back on Might work.
Speaker 3:Give it a try.
Speaker 2:That's really scary and you recently went through this that there was a male yeah, this was like two weeks ago. Oh, oh, my god and they still don't get it. What did you tell him?
Speaker 3:just tell him fuck off no, I didn't know what to say.
Speaker 4:I was like kind of shocking right like I can't believe this shit's happening right now and actually, like my first thought was, maybe he's gonna ask for directions.
Speaker 3:That's why he's pulling over to where I was and there was nobody in that neighborhood, like you couldn't see anybody else. And that was my first thought, like oh, if they ask, I'm not gonna know anything because this is not where I live. But no, that's why he said the fact that he said that he turned around to come find me and tell me bad, bad move, bad line that's yeah, how is that supposed to be like romantic?
Speaker 4:how is that flattering? In what world is that not creepy as hell? Yeah, so I'm so sorry all of your words.
Speaker 1:Don't say stupid shit like that I know I always have like the net, like the sad stories, like I always come up with like terrible stories, but this does happen and I have to share. When I was a kid in mexico, I was like seven or eight years old, I don't remember, but I was walking to school, um, and a guy tried to kidnap me oh my god yeah, so yeah, what?
Speaker 1:um, I was late to school. The the way it happened there in that community is like all the ladies used to watch for the kids and all the kids kind of walked together to school and I was late. My brother slept without me and my mom was like hurry up, go, go, go. And I was supposed to run, but I hate running, I didn't want to run. So then I could see them, I could see the bunch of people in front of me, and then they turned the corner and then I couldn't see them.
Speaker 1:So that's when I started running to try to catch up. Oh my god. Um, then this lady was like hey, you're really late. And I was like I know, I know, I saw a car. I I I can't remember the car, clearly it's a white little car. If I see it in the streets I can point it out to you. Um, and in the car it kind of slowed down next to me. Once I turned the street when there was nobody else and the guy said do you know what street this is? And I was a kid and all I've been told all my life is to not talk to strangers. And I said no.
Speaker 1:I don't know the street, I'm a kid like I don't know. So he pulled up the car, like he, he pulled, he turned and like, pulled the car in front of me to where the car was blocking me, where his door was. So he pulled me, but he pulled me through the window so he didn't open his door and pull me.
Speaker 1:He pulled me through the window so I was able to sit down and bend his hands funny. So he couldn't pick me up and he wouldn't let go and I was just screaming bloody murder through like I didn't holy shit screaming until the lady heard me, the one that told me I was late, and she saw me and was like coming for me.
Speaker 1:And the guy saw that she was coming and he threw me. So, um, she took me home, told my dad, and my dad was ready to kill somebody. They called the police. They couldn't find him. Um, when I in that same neighborhood, this guy exposed his penis to me when I was playing outside. So, yeah, like this was me being a little girl, you know, like this was me being a child, right? So the reason we don't trust these men is because they are capable of doing shitty things to children, let alone women. So why would we not pick a bear?
Speaker 4:over a man. I'm so sorry all that happened to you.
Speaker 1:That's horrible it was yeah, it's. It was terrifying. So now I'm paranoid all the time. That's why I have to like. That's why I look everywhere every way. That's why I'm anxious all the time about what man is around in my house, who who I'm talking to like. Of course, I'd pick a bear right, yeah, right.
Speaker 3:Of course I'd pick a bear. Yep, this could have been an entire episode, diana and we are gonna write it down.
Speaker 2:We're all gonna rage, we're all gonna rage I am so sorry that you went through that, and I'm so sorry that you're still having effects of that, because, yeah, you're still. You still have a lot of anxiety because of it.
Speaker 1:Men suck yep closing thoughts on the breakups. Breakup, let's go back.
Speaker 3:Yeah, don't cheat yeah, well, and you know, there are so many other reasons to break up. I think we only talked about cheating today yeah, we did um, but I feel like learning from a breakup is the only way that's going to help you get through it, grow, hopefully not go through the same or repeat the same patterns in the future. Yeah, it sucks.
Speaker 4:That's exactly what I was going to say. Closing thoughts on breakups. Try to view your breakup as a growth opportunity. Try to identify what went wrong and do better next time. Try to find someone who treats you the way you deserve to be treated, and make sure you hold them to that standard the whole time.
Speaker 1:And just to add to you treat yourself like you deserve to be treated, because I feel like that's where it all starts right. Yes, if we learn how valuable and what our worth is, then we're never going to allow anybody to treat us like shit 100 emoji.
Speaker 2:What do I say? Fuck bitches, get money. That too. But, if you want to be in a relationship, please be respectful of that relationship. Be respectful of yourself, be respectful of the other person. You're sharing time, you're sharing space. You're sharing emotions. There's a lot.
Speaker 4:Take it seriously.
Speaker 2:Other than just financial or objects. There's a lot being shared. So be mindful, and if you're going to be cheating or being disrespectful in a relationship, then just don't get into a relationship. Simple as that, I would think.
Speaker 1:I would think. Look at me, I'm so proud of you. Thanks Anyway. Thank you, so proud of you, thanks Anyway. Thank you so much for listening. Yeah, and thank you, jacob, for coming.
Speaker 3:Thanks for having me, thank you for being so open and sharing so much with us. Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And you're staying right for the next one, I think so, all right, good Bye, bye, bye, bye.
Speaker 3:Thank you for listening to Latina State of Mind produced by us, your awesome hosts Diana, benia and Yance.
Speaker 4:Special shout out to Jerome, our editor.
Speaker 3:Don't forget to follow us on Instagram at lsom underscore podcast and on Facebook at Latina State of Mind. Hasta la proxima.